You could say at leasr they hadn't blown the season after a half inning like last year but you'd be lying to yourself.
Last year was like ripping the bandage off. Yesterday was like getting a bone rebroken because it didn't heal right the first time.
I could moan about Schoeneweis and Ayala giving up those consecutive homers in the 8th.
But that would diminish the pathetic choke of managing only five runs against Marlin pitching in three games.
You want to hang some bullseyes?
Jose Reyes. after the September he had last season, 2 for 13 against the Marlins was disgraceful. Especially because he is the motor of the offense. When he chokes, the Mets have no offense. Maybe he shouldn't be getting 688 at-bats in a season. Maybe he needs rest more often. Something tells me he's got to go and now, whilst he's young and fast and popular. He'll be worth alot.
Wright, .340 in September but 0 for 4 last night. Yes, 4 hits in this series. All fucking singles and ZERO RBIs.
Church, 0 for 9 in the series. Need I say more? Ok, I will. Next season gimme >Shin-Soo Choo in right field instead.
Delgado, wonderful second half but you'll be 37 this time next year. Time to move on.
Beltran, bravo. You can't carry a team like you once did the Astros but you make a good number two hitter, always have. Stay there.
Jerry? He'll stay, whether you like that or not. After nowhere men like Art Howe and Willie, anyone's going to seem charming by comparison but he didn't win.
More later kiddies, but for now I'm off to drown my sorrows.
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24 comments:
I cannot blame Jerry for this. They were way behind when he took over, he lost Maine and Wagner, and he had Heilman. This Heilman was five times worse than last year's Heilman, who wasn't good. Luis Ayala---whatever success he had was done with mirrors, not stuff. The major cultural flaw is in the lineup. This lineup is gutless. Three guys with 110+ rbi and what does that get you on the last weekend of the season? The Wilpons are shmucks. They will bring everyone back, except maybe Castillo aqnd Easley. But one or two of these main cogs are the problem. I would not bring back Delgado. No point. He faded in the stretch because he is old. Beltran was better this year in a lot of ways, if not statistically. Wright is a real problem. So is Reyes. It would probably be insane to think about unloading them. If we do not score without Reyes now, what will we do next year? Maybe the problem is all 4 of them. Last year I was down on the Carloses. I thought they were losers and too mild to show Wright and Reyes the right way. I don't know what to think now. Wright and Reyes have three straight terrible losing experiences if you count 2006. One is a good lesson. Three might be incurable..
jaap:
Ryan Church - I think you're unfair to him. The poor guy. He never recovered from those concussions. He'll be great next year.
Wright and Reyes just need more rest during the season, they'll be fine if they get that.
Delgado: who would you get for the money that would give you the same numbers - even half the numbers?
jdon: my mother heard this statistic last week: if the Mets games had all been decided on the score at the end of the 8th inning they would have been way ahead of everyone else in the league. And we would not be fuming about our offense.
one thing you're right about jdon, Wilpon are shmucks. They're like teenage girls with infatuations with some of these players and even Omar. I won't be disgusted for keeping Jerry on but frankly, we gave Willie more rope and look where it got us. If the core stays they need new leadership because these mutts can't get it done otherwise, that much is clear.
katherine, maybe the cocussions knocked him back into being the kid of hitter he was with the Nats. In fact he finished about the same if you look at stats. Just average. Shin Soo, on the other hand, wow.
I can't think clearly about the others yet, too much bile to expunge. I think for old times sake, after he caught Seaver's bouncing toss they shoulda had Piazza three-hop the ball to second base justonce more.
LOL--good one. They are talking on the talk radio about---cover your ears, katherine---trading DW. Both Reyes and Wright have had 3 years of post season failure. Like I said in a previous post, that might be incurable. I am not opposed to doing this--Murphy could go to third, but I do not trust Omar to do it well.
jdon - thanks for the consideration for my delicate sensibilities. But I actually don't have a big crush on DW, so I didn't faint at your suggestion he be traded.
Seriously,though, that David and Jose trade talk is laughable. In the cold light of day everyone knows they are the franchise going forward. And they're both great.
As a Met fan are you prepared to watch them fail for two or three more years before doing something? I am too old for that kind of patience.
I have an instant solution to all our problems:
K-ROD!!!!
They have to go after him. I doubt they will do it. He will ask for the moon and the stars to come here. But he cannot knock in runs when you need them in big games. Neither, it seems, can Wright or Reyes. Great numbers are fine, but when the season comes down to a few games, you need guys like Manny or Albert. Or Ryan Howard, it would see jose and David have not done it the past 3 years, and give no indication they will. Wright even said in a newspaper article in the Bergen Record that he thinks he may always have late game problems because he just tries too hard. Ian O'Connor had it in his column. Maybe he is trying to get David fired like he did Willie.
katherine, saying "In the cold light of day everyone knows they are the franchise going forward. And they're both great." talking about DW and JR is "laughable". Keith Hernandez was great. Kirk Gibson was great. Because when the game was on the line, you could count on those guys.
Having said that, the Mets can't part with them. Wright is learning (kinda like the WOPR in War Games) that he has to change. Reyes doesn't appear to get it yet.
Church is not the problem, despite his shitty performance. Keep in mind he just missed tying the game (how many of you thought it had a chance of being a home run when it came off the bat?? be honest!). He has big balls and made some bad (lotta) decisions on pitches, but that was not nerves. Jury is still out on him, IMHO.
Katherine, saying "In the cold light of day everyone knows they are the franchise going forward. And they're both great." talking about DW and JR is "laughable". Keith Hernandez was great. Kirk Gibson was great. Because when the game was on the line, you could count on those guys.
Having said that, the Mets can't part with them. Wright is learning (kinda like the WOPR in War Games) that he has to change. Reyes doesn't appear to get it yet.
Church is not the problem, despite his shitty performance. Keep in mind he just missed tying the game (how many of you thought it had a chance of being a home run when it came off the bat?? be honest!). He has big balls and made some(lotta) bad decisions on pitches, but that was not nerves. Jury is still out on him, IMHO.
sorry about the double post double post. i didn't know i was doing it doing it.
Tommy Two Times
btw, great music Arch!!!!
Joey Stivic (Stiwic? Stywyk?)
tommyjoebillyjimbob (this is just like the Waltons!)
well, at least we agree on Ryan - I don't think he ever really got over those concussions and the effects of the time he had to take off. You can't judge him by this season's post injury performance.
I will remind you of something about the great Keith Hernandez - he was great - but in the bottom of the tenth inning of the sixth game of the 86 World Series, when the game was on the line, he made the second out in the inning. Kid, Kevin Mitchell, Ray Knight and Mookie were the clutchsters in that game.
Ryan Howard is kinda like Delgado with more homers and a worse average with incredibly shitty fielding (yes, even worse than Delgado). The Phillies won because of their WILL to win. Their numbers are similar to the Mets. They WANT it. It comes down to the makeup of the players. Davey Johnson didn't say to Carter (who sucked in the Astros series until he manned up and got a winning hit), Kevin Mitchell and Knight to get hits against the Sox in Game 6, THEY wanted it!!!!! The Mets need a player who's got a pair. Lose Delgado.
Well, hi Mary Ellen!!! Where's Johnboy??? I thought you said goodnight already!! You probably can't sleep because you are still thinking about our beloved Mets.
Listen, young lady, Keith made the second out in that tenth inning, hitting it deep (as deep as 17 could hit it) to center/right center field. He didn't choke there, he hit the ball well, so c'mon. Not only that, Ray hit a faggy handle shot just over second, unlike my fave, Keith. Big Balls by Ray, don't get me wrong, but...
Oh, and don't forget game 6 of the Astros series how Keith doubled in the ninth when they were down three!! He da man. give some love please Katherine.
And another thing dammit!!! LISTEN UP METS FANS!!!!
CARLOS DELGADO IS A PHONY!!! Here's a guy that hits home runs but plays like shit in the field. He is the consummate "Emperor wearing no clothes" and everyone kisses his ass because he pulls his head out of his ass to hit monumental shots.
Early in this season he dragged the Mets down with his anemic fielding and shitty hitting. When Manuel came along and sat his lazy ass on the bench, he realizes that he will be embarassed, so he goes on a tear and strokes his own ego by doing stuff that no one can find fault with: fields like half a Keith (which is 10 times better than what he had done prior) and hits home runs at will. This is a man with GREAT home run power, but is retarded. That's it. He's kinda like a car that has great power but when you have to get on the freeway, you push the pedal and.......nuttin. FU Delgado, you suck@!
katherine--as for keith--anyone can make an out in a big spot. the point is, he came through many times in other big spots. No one bats 1000. Wright continuously fails in late inning situations. That is very disturbing,
I think you all are idolizing a player who is safely retired and can no longer disappoint you.
Of course he was great - I'm not arguing that. But the point I was trying to make is that if it weren't for the improbable events that followed his turn at bat, we would think of the team of the 80's as a gifted group of guys who "devastated" us by never achieving their potential. Sound familiar?
Everyone seems fine with bringing Manuel back, but why? Cause the players like him? Cause this immensely talented team won a lot under him? I have seen no compelling argument for keeping him. My argument is that the winning started before he got there and was probably inevitable even under Willie. Willie delivered the same result--no playoffs and a choke. Jerry could not motivate this bunch of sallies into the playoffs, and merely playing meaningful games is no longer the goal. And most importantly, this team doesn't need a "nice guy" it needs someone to kick their asses. Jerry was sitting right next to Willie during everything they fired Willie for!! Thus, instead of shopping around (or promoting Oberkfell), the Wilpons send the message that failure is tolerated and there's a good chance that we are looking at another mid-season managerial circus.
I think many Met fans are taking the same unreflective approach with Church. There is nothing in his history to suggest that he be penciled in to the lineup next year. He had 2 good months at the plate. He may have serious brain damage thanks to his medical situation being carelessly managed. It is myopic to count on him to be more than he has been, and if Delgado is clogging 1st base, the Mets will collapse again if they don't bring another big bat into the outfield somewhere.
Katherine, you have a point about us idolizing someone that can't disappoint us. But Mex is my hero and he helped lead that team. The temerity of the 86ers can be contrasted with the timidity of the current Omar crew. The attitude of this bunch of bozos would NEVER be tolerated from the 86 team, from the leaders right down to the role players. The 86 Mets might not have been nice guys, but when they got a break, they pounced on it. They never gave up. This team, when Endy makes a miraculous game saving catch, well, you know what happens. When the bullpen serves as a convenient excuse, they fold.
In all honesty, the 1986 Mets should have been the 85 Mets. They also should have been the 88 Mets. The did their share of underachieving. And the year they won, they let inferior teams almost beat them. I liked those guys because they battled. These guys don't. I honestly do not think that that Omar would ever bring in a tough guy manager. He is not forceful and he would not like a forceful manager working for him. He is the players' butt boy. They could use a kick in the ass but it would have to come from a player, someone who is less of a phony and more of a telent than Mr LoDuca was. Omar would probably not bring in a guy like that anyway.
katherine, with all due respect, in response to your comment " I think you all are idolizing a player who is safely retired and can no longer disappoint you."I would like to borrow the caveman's response when that woman spewed some bunk, "Uh......what???" That might be the most stupid comment you have ever posted. That's like saying after someone saying that Reggie Jackson was HUGE in October and you would respond with, "I think you all are idolizing a player who is safely retired and can no longer disappoint you." Pulleeeease!
retired heroes never disappoint, Katherine, true enough (although I understand I'm paraphrasing) -but active players can be heroes too and whilst for a few times in that Cub series a few Mets seemed like they could be heroes, all but Beltran and Santana failed to rise to the occasion in those 3 final games when it mattered most. If this were 2006 with Beltran's bat on his shoulders, forgiveable. But this is now the 3rd year running. Somethings got to give if we aren't going to become the modern Brooklyn Bums. We need active heroes.
who are fans talking about trading on talk radio tonight in Minneapolis? A pair of losses to KC when they coulda clinched? Shut out in the most important game of the season? I suspect low budgets help them manage their expectations. Wright or Reyes to the Twins, who have alot of young talent to spare? Far away from the NL...sign and trade Delgado to Angels? any thoughts ,players we could get in return?
maybe some reading for Omar on how to build a bullpen:
how to build
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